The Value of an Eagle Scout

Here's a question I saw today on Linked-In: "For those familiar with Scouting and the rank of Eagle Scout:   What is your opinion of its value to a young man's future?"

My answer:   Some of the best candidates I have ever worked with were Eagle Scouts.  Last year, I placed a 34-year old Harvard MBA with a client as their new President.  During the interview process I asked him "Of what accomplishment are you most proud?"  I expected him to say "I was valedictorian of my class at the University of Utah ..." or "I graduated from Harvard Business School ..." or "I was was one of sixty (out of 58,000) employees selected to attend my company's global leadership development program."

But his immediate response was "I am an Eagle Scout."

Scouting rocks, and any young man who makes it through the five-year gauntlet of leadership activities and community projects to become an Eagle is highly achievement oriented.  And that's what my executive search clients pay me to source for them.  There are 28 million Scouts worldwide, and less than 1% make it to Eagle.  Becoming an Eagle is no accident.  It takes real planning and commitment.  And it takes guts.

Parents:  If your son wants to pursue Scouting, don't just let him -- encourage him.  And candidates:  If you are an Eagle Scout, make sure it ends up on your resume.  It's one of the terms I look for on a resume to tell me whether a candidate has "the right stuff."

Comments

[OhMy]

I just went through 170 or so resumes for my company and I looked at each resume with merit and identifying the education/experience that was required for the open positions. I narrowed it down to the candidates that fit the opening and never once did I look for gender, race, religion, or anything else that could be accusatory as discrimination. Following that, I looked for skills of leadership and exemplary service to others that made that person stand out from others as a trustworthy and honorable person. If you had listed in your achievements that you were an Eagle Scout, Girl Scout Gold Award receipient (or silver or bronze for that matter), that you received military honors, community service honors or awards, it only helps to provide evidence on a piece of paper among 170 or so, that you might exemplify these two basic traits. Don't make this a petty argument over gender and whether paying attention to BSA rank is discrimination (or not), it shows character, dilligence and a person who should be respected for they can apply themselves to complete tasks in what is sometimes difficult circumstances. All of these achievements should be documented, and certainly should be something to be proud of. It stands out a little more then "I played soccer." There is not enough of this type of service in the world today and we should encourage our children to be scouts, to serve others, and be good citizens. In life, it matters.

[DAvid Frey]

Harry,

I'm speaking at two young men's Court of Honor tomorrow evening. Thanks for your endorsement of the BSA and Eagle Scout. I hope you don't mind me quoting you tomorrow evening.

You're the best Harry.

David Frey

[Randy]

As an Eagle Scout myself. I can assure you that gaining that rank has NOTHING to do with "just continuing in scouting". The Eagle award isn't handed out as a "completion" award. Finding a teenage boy who will dedicate himself to ANYTHING for 5 years is almost impossible.That kind of dedication as a teenager usually transitions into adulthood.

[Lee]

Just a fact check. I've read varying opinions of the percentage of boyscouts that make eagle on this page and i'd just like to straighten it up. I know all of you are probably questioning my credibility... so let me first state that I am an eagle scout. The actual number is 4 out of 100 will make eagle. not sure where you got 1% or 1 in 20??? not trying to put anyone to shame either... just call it a friendly point in the right direction.

[Gordy]

Please realize that Girl Scouting is not even near the greatness of Boy Scouting.
Scouting is an international fraternal organization that is steeped in traditions that date back to an experiment, in 1907 that Baden-Powell conducted at Brownsea Island in Dorset.
Girl Scouting came from that same movement, since around 1911, Juliette Gordon's husband was a freind of Baden-Powell. She got the idea from him and started a "troop" in Scotland. She understood that military skills beneficial to boys were viewed as frivolous for girls. The area the first Girl Guide "troop" was formed was poor and so they learned to raise poultry and spin wool to sell to help their families.
Later she brought the idea to her cousin in the US, and during World War I they did things like plant victory gardens and such.
The Girl Scouts has never followed a para-military structure that is so highly regarded, as in the Boy Scouts. Nor do they have such High Adventure bases such as Philmont, Norther Tier and Seabase.
Venture Scouting is the best option for a girl to experience Boy Scouting. The age group however is 14-21 year olds.
I am not sexist...these are the facts...except them.

[Melinda]

Thanks for the thought provoking post. What's the best place on the resume to mention this information? Under "other activities?"

Also, in your experience, do hiring managers know what The Girl Scout Gold Award is? That it's the equivalent of the Eagle Scout? or does it need to be explained thusly:

Girl Scout Gold Award (Eagle Scout Equivalent)

Does the fact that at the time I was the youngest person to earn the award matter?

Advice, comments, thoughts?

[Scouter]

I think all the discussion about gender and other discrimintation is missing the point.

Being able to put Eagle Scout on a job resume shows that this individual is a cut above the average applicant. It's no different than being able to put on Football Team Captain, Latin Club President, School newspaper editor, Class President, etc. It gives such an applicant an advantage over other applicants who have not achieived as much.

That's why these acheivements are put on resume's, because every applicant is looking for something in their lives that will make them a cut above other applicants. Eagle Scout is one of those positive attributes. Nothing more. Girl Scouts have their Gold Award. Doesn't the female Capain of her school basketball team have an advantage over another applicant who cannot put down team captain on his/her application? You bet your boots. Is that discriminatory toward males who can't join a female team? Nope. No discrimination, just personal achievement that each applicant uses to try and get the job.

[Dave Roberts]

RE: Venture Scouts
This is a program for young men and women ages 14-20. There's a ton of great info at http://www.scouting.org/venturing/

Harry - I gave copies of your post to my boys (Troop 12, Jersey Shore Council) and their parents, and have referred other scout masters to your blog to see it. The feedback has all been positive. Thank you.

[Cam Beck]

Harry and Heather -- Check out the Venture Scouts, which can be started out of a BSA program. I don't know all the details of how to do it, as my son recently started Webelos, but I was told by the den leader that young women are admitted.

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=xx&c=ds&terms=Venture&x=0&y=0

[Cam Beck]

I'm going to print this out and read it to my young Webelos Scout (http://www.popcornscholar.com). It's always good to have a goal, but especially if you can see the value in the result. Thanks for posting this.

[Joe]

I achieved Life Scout many years ago, which is one degree lower than Eagle. I had every intention and opportunity to attain the rank of Eagle but was distracted by other senior year activities in high school. All those other activities were warranted and had value but, in hindsight, I think Eagle Scout would have stayed with me longer.....

[Mark Johnson]

Just a quick fact check. Not sure where you got the less than 1% number, but the Boy Scouts' own website says it's about one in twenty. See the link, bulletpoint 4.

I don't discount the value of Eagle Scout, but I think it's mostly a matter of just continuing in scouting. Personally, I'd rather hire someone recently out of the military than someone who achieved Eagle Scout 20 years ago.

[Jim Durbin]

For women in technology (in Seattle), try Digital Eve Seattle.

http://www.digitaleveseattle.org/

There's a source of competent women, that any recruiter should use to place qualified candidates. Is it sexist to use this site, since it's stated purpose is to help only one group?

[Jim Durbin]

Sara,

My response was tongue in cheek, and Recruiting Animal's "honey" response was his version of a joke.

As for a strict debate, I fail to see how the number of women executives has any bearing on a discussion of my comments of gender discrimination in College Recruiting.

There are many reasons why there aren't as many women executives, ranging from person al choice about career path to societal pressures creating different expectations to plain old discrimination.

But if we are going to be sensitive about the problems of women executives, than surely you have to agree that it is no less gender discrimination to require a college degree when the percentage of female college graduates is higher than the percentage of women in the population.

There are no two ways about it. If gender discrimination is true, than it's always true, and the same companies that only have 16% female executives also discriminate against men without diplomas.

There are plenty of good arguments for and against addressing gender in recruiting, but limiting oneself from a good recruiting pool because it might be discrimination is not a recipe for success.

The answer, for those who are interested in recruiting one sex or the other, lies in finding simiar pools of female talent.

[sara]

Recruiting Animal, sugarpants. Oh wait? Was that as inappropriate as the condescending "honey"?

Honestly, I'm not a feminist, and do not usually bother commenting on posts like this - but this one got to me for some reason.

These things are very tricky and there is always a way to argue both sides. My comment was meant to point out that sometimes discrimination can be very subtle and unintentional.

For example, if you have "eagle scout" as a positive criteria and are looking at two candidates who are otherwise equal - will you go with the eagle scout? If both are men, then sure, ok. What if one is a woman?

BTW, Jim, seriously. Do you really think that 53 percent of executives are women? While women compromise more than 50% of the corporate workforce, less than 16% are at the executive level. Do you think that there aren't capable women to occupy these positions?

Other statistics follow (found through quick google search, did not validate. source http://www.breaktheglassceiling.com/statistics-women.htm)

* 11.2% of corporate officers are women
* 6% of corporate officers holding line jobs are women, while 94% are men
* Women make up 2.7% of top earners – the 5 most highly paid officers at Fortune 500 companies, compared to men who make up 97.3% of top earners
* In November 2002, women represent 15.7% of the corporate officers in America’s 500 largest companies. These percentages are up from 12.5% in 2000 and 8.7% in 1995.
* In April 2002, there were six female CEOs in the Fortune 500 and a total of eleven in the Fortune 1000.
in 2000 and 8.7% in 1995.
*Women will compromise more than 50% of the corporate workforce by the year 2000. Source: The Bureau of Labor Statistics' Handbook of Labor Statistics, 1989

[Xavier]

"There are 28 million Scouts worldwide, and less than 1% make it to Eagle"

I might be wrong, but as far as I know, the 'Eagle Scout' distinction is only valid for the BSA. So you should look at the percentage of Eagle Scouts within the members of the BSA only, not worldwide.

I have been a Scout for 16 years here in Belgium, and we do not have this distinction.

There is a distinction that you may get after you have passed all the Scout Leader classes, but it is only a sort of essay that is meant to show how well you have integrated the trainings. And it is not mandatory.

[Brett]

There is an award that rewards leadership, dedication, and service that is reserved exclusively for women. That award is the Gold Award, and Girl Scouts aged 14-18 are eligible to pursue it. In rough terms, it is the equivalent of the Boy Scouts' Eagle Award. How do I know? My sister is a Gold Award holder, and benefited from the stuggle to earn that award as much as I did to become an Eagle Scout. Read about it here:
http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_central/insignia/highest_awards/gold_award.asp

[Recruiting Animal]

Sara, honey. Harry didn't say that he only looks for Eagle Scouts. Only that he sees that as a good sign when he finds it.

Or maybe he does seek them out. I would. Just as I would seek out people from the Girl Scouts if they proved to produce impressive candidates.

Shally Elvis Steckerl calls that Peer Regression Analysis and its not sexist unless it takes place in a sexist society.

And the segregation of the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts don't make a society sexist, do they?

I know a recruiter who likes to work with ex-Navy Seals. Is that sexist?

[Chuck Zdorjowy]

I posted the original question to which Harry was kind enough to thoughtfully reply to and then share with his readers.

I encourage you to see this question and answer in the light in which the question was posed.

I am the father of 2 teenage boys who have been involved in Scouting since Tiger Scouts (before Cub Scouts). They are now 16 and 14 and starting to get very distracted with many competing activities.

As parents we want our children to avail themselves of any opportunity that will help shape their future in a positive way.

We have always encouraged our boys to work to achieve their Eagle Scout rank and benefit from the leadership opportunities that Scouting affords.

I am of the opinion that it was a significant differentiator and something that they will be proud of all their lives.

I reached out to my network of professionals on LinkedIn to see if this was still a widely held perception.

The overwhelming answer was "yes!" My intention is to share this information with my boys, and with the leadership of the troop.

Where does sex discrimination even enter the conversation. It is a differentiator. Just like Boy/Girls State.

I received a reply to my question from a former Girl Scout extolling the value and virtue of the girl scout experience.

I have two daughters and would be asking a similar question if they were considering quiting something of such apparent value, but they are currently only 5 years old and we are more concerned with the Virtues of Dora vs. Strawberry Short Cake (btw I think Dora is a much better role model)

Let's not be too sensitive, and miss the point of the good advice.

[Jim Durbin]

I agree that discrimination against someone on the basis of gender is absolutely terrible.

That's why I'm preparing a class action lawsuit against companies that illegally discriminate against men.

Seeing as 51% of recent bachelor degrees and 53% of recent master's degrees are attained by women, any company that requires a college degree is engaging in discrimination against men.

Seeing as the difference between female/male college diplomas is anticipated to rise to a 60/40 split, it is clear that new legislation should be put in place that mandate that no company can hire more women than men with college degrees.

That is of course, only if you feel that gender discrimination is something that should be addressed fairly. (/snark off).

There are lots of good organizations to help place top quality women. www.witi.com is one. Others can be found here: http://www.quintcareers.com/womens_networking_organizations.html

[Heather]

Yeah, I'm with you Harry. I don't necessarily see it as discrimination as long as the recruiters are also looking for women out there. I don't think that many of my sources are exclusive to males or females but I really focus on professional orgnizations (there seem to be more for women, mostly due to the fact that there are less women in the field). We do have goals around diversity recruiting and as long as men outnumber women in the workplace, we will continue to seek out women (same goes for other under-represented minorities). But that doesn't mean we stop recruiting men. Hey, I'll leverage ALL sources available to me as long as it helps me find the best person, period.

As far as my space is concerned, it's a lot easier to find men than women. It's a lot easier to find caucasians than URMs just based on numbers (though again, most important to me is finding the best person). So I guess my question comes less from a place of asking you to justify yourself and more from a place of asking you to help me out and furthering the discussion.

[Harry Joiner]

Frankly, I don't see this as sex discrimination. It's not my fault that the BSA doesn't admit girls.

All I know is that Eagle Scouts are solemnly sworn to be "trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent." Anyone, male or female, can be these things. But Eagle Scouts wear these virtues on their sleeves. My job is to source virtuous winners for my clients, regardless of their race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, marital status, or national origin.

If you know of an organization for women that promotes these same virtues, please tell me and Heather Hamilton of Microsoft (who inquired below).

[Sara]

As a woman, this post makes me uncomfortable. The idea that recruiters are sourcing people based on membership in an organization which denies membership to women is hard to swallow.

Even if this is one of many potential criteria, it still strikes me as subtle discrimination.

I wonder what the male:female ratio of executive hires in these companies is? And if HR is aware of the discrimination?

[Recruiting Research]

Any candidate, male or female, who has the word "varsity" (as in athletics) on their resume knows the value of vision, teamwork, sweat, and hard practice -- as well as how to win nobly and lose gracefully.

[Heather]

What about female candidates? Is there something similar you would use to identify strong female candidates for open positions?